Nasty contracts...

Did you strike through any objectionable language? Here in the US, we can do that. If they accept it back from us, they accept the terms as modified.

I have had to sign a few agreements but usually just limiting the use of whatever images I take to true and limited editorial use. Sometimes the agreements are so structured that they only apply to media outlets ("For media still photographers images may be used once only in conjunction a review of the concert.") so I sign and note that I don't fall into any of their categories. I have a Carole King concert coming where I am lead to believe that there will be one of these agreements but I haven't been given any specifics. OTOH, I doubt that they want your images ... at some point there was probably an image that they wanted and couldn't get so they slapped that language onto their agreement and it stays whether it is appropriate or not. Of course, if they demand the images I'll be interested in knowing if they pay your fee.

Of course not! The contract stated free use.

This might be good for the younger photogs' knowledge out there who might have to sign one of these contracts. Now say I am shooting a large name band and am required to sign a contract releasing all rights for the photos I take. Heres the thing, I am 16, a legal minor in the US. Don't I need a parent or guardian to co-sign the contract for it to be legally binding? I know that a co-signer is needed for model releases for minors, so shouldn't the same rule apply to everyone?

-Brandon

They can use them for free but they might have to pay processing fee for the work involved in providing them ... they aren't going to just magically appear on the disk drives at the band headquarters!

In the US, minors are not legally permitted to enter into contracts so you are correct. If you are a minor and are asked to sign one, show them an ID and tell them you can't legally sign it because you aren't 18 years old. You risk being turned away, but they can't make you sign the contract since you are not a legal adult.

Yes that was what I was thinking, but I could not find anything about minors not being able to sign any contracts. However, if someone underage does sign one of those horrendous contracts, would that person be void of any consequences of violating the contract? Wouldn't it be managements (aka the adults) responsibility to make sure that the ones signing the contract are of legal age.

The closest I have gotten to needing my ID is actually turning it in to get my photo pass (through the venue) then I had to go back to the person at will call and exchange the photo pass back for my ID. Very smart on their side, since it was just a generic laminate that said "Toad's Place PRESS" on it. No specific name or date like on the stickers I have gotten in the past from them.

-Brandon

I will see if my attorney can give me a reference for it. I'm sure it has to be either in contract law statutes or in the US code that defines a "legal adult" vs a "minor" and what that means.

Thanks. I know this isn't exactly common knowledge. I am sure all the other under age photogs on this forum (if there are any) will greatly appreciate it.

"Minors don't have capacity to contract". I also did a Google search and found a reference on FindLaw.com. See the first paragraph.

Quote:
A minor generally cannot form an enforceable contract. A contract entered into by a minor may be canceled by the minor or by his or her guardian. After reaching the age of majority (18 in most states), a person still has a reasonable period of time to cancel a contract entered into as a minor. If, however, he or she does not cancel the contract within a reasonable period of time, the contract will be considered ratified, making it binding and enforceable.

It is important to note the last sentence. If you don't cancel the contract within a reasonable period of time after reaching legal age, the contract is considered ratified and you are obligated by terms of the contract.

Do yourself a favor. If you sign a contract to get your photo pass, immediately write a letter canceling (rescinding) your agreement to the contract the day after the show. Make sure they give you a copy of the contract that you signed.

UPDATE: I did some more reading on this. Some states may not recognize the disaffirmation of a contract if the goods traded for cannot be returned. See the bullet on minors on this Wikipedia entry on "Contract Law (Capacity)".

This is becoming a common practice. The big American bands are the worst for it. Basically they require you to tell them what publication you are shooting for. This allows you to submit the photos to that publication only.

The contact also states that they will pay you a fee of $1 and all images take belong to the band. The small fee makes it legally binding as money has changed hands.

I only shoot gigs like this if it is specifically for a publication.

In the US, that $1 could be disputed as unreasonable compensation or unfair trade according to some legal text I read this week on grounds for disaffirming contracts.

Well, I am throwing my two cents in here quite some time after the original posting from Kalle but thought I'd do so anyway. I too have experienced these "Nasty" contracts several times and they seem to be more and more common. My first salty experience was with Carole King, (Watch out Dwight McCann!) who's tour manager delivered a verbal assault on me for scratching out the part of the photo release (contract in disguise) which stated they could use the images at will, without payment or credit forever and essentially own my copyright. This "so called" release and photo pass were handed to me by a box office employee just minutes before the show, with no Carole King representatives present. I read it, modified it and headed into the pit. I wasn't approached by anyone before shooting and since I had never experienced this type of situation before, I went ahead shot the show. After shooting, the show promoter's publicist (not Carole King's people) asked for my signed release. I informed her that I had modified it and that she may want to show it to Carole's people before I left the venue. I was sure that they couldn't have possibly expected me to accept it the way it was and that there might be some simple negotiation process. Wrong. After I waited about 15 minutes, her tour manager burst into the backstage area and hollered "Where is he?!!" That's when I knew the you-know-what was hitting the fan. I introduced myself and before I could get another word out of my mouth she abruptly informed me that if I didn't sign the contract as it was, I couldn't shoot and there were no negotiations, period! Of course, at this point I had already shot (less than 3 songs I think) and she knew it. I refused to sign and, of course, she demanded the film. In my head I was thinking the film is probably legally mine but I am a fair person. I managed to shoot only one roll (film at the time) and I gladly gave it up, only after I cracked the canister open with an opener from concessions and exposed it . I must admit that it was a beautiful moment because she finally went quiet with a blank stare on her face, plus it was something I had always dreamt of doing in a situation like that. But... it was only a moment and then she was at me again. Obviously thinking there was a chance I was hiding more film, she said, "If I ever sees any images with your name on them I will have your ass." All I could do is turn and walk away, I was just plain shocked by this woman.
I took this experience as a learning lesson and never scratch anything first, though I think it is just. Now, as soon as I see words like "perpetuity," I do my best to be put in touch with band management and hope to avoid sticky situations or having to walk. Negotiation never works though and I've had to walk from such bands as: Rob Thomas, Mars Volta and Foo Fighters. Watch out for Santana too, he's got sneaky little tid bits in his contracts. I recently caved in and signed a contract which gave away all of my copyrights. Feeling bad for walking from so many shows at the venue I shoot for and knowing how important documentation of the show was to the venue... I signed away for the Beastie Boys. I coaxed the venue into more pay but it wasn't worth it, AT ALL. I am disappointed with myself for doing it and now I cringe a little whenever I hear the band I use to love so much. I feel like I let down all other music photographers (and most other artists for that matter) and everything we work for. I vow to NEVER sign one of these "Nasty" contracts again and hope you all pledge to do the same!!!

Quote:
I informed her that I had modified it and that she may want to show it to Carole's people before I left the venue.

You should have just told them you left it with the box office and then scrammed. You are perfectly within your right to scratch off any terms of a contract you do not agree with. It is their responsibility to be there when you sign it. If they leave it to the box office staff, they suffer the consequences.

I would not have given them the film. They came at you with that attitude as a scare tactic. They want to kill your confidence. It is the same scare tactic people use when you confront them about copyright infringement and they know you have them. At least you were clear headed enough to expose the film before handing it over so they too have nothing to use.

Walter - You are right, If I would have left it at the box office I would have been in the clear. But honestly... I don't care if I have the images of artist who tries to reach into the pocket of another.

Kalle - I uderstand where you are coming from but... How much is that newspaper paying you? Maybe $100? Is that worth the 9 hour trip after a normal work week? Is that worth giving away the rights to your intellectual property for someone who already has tons of money to use for free? Think about it... You have to have to work a normal work week to be able to go out and do this. Wouldn't you like to do it for a living? Well, I do, and if WE keep signing these things, we'll all have to work a normal work week forever. Question: If you are shooting for a newspaper, don't they own the copyrights to the images anyway? So, what do you have to loose by walking? Pay for the train ticket yourself in the end if you have to, it's a small price compared to the potential your images have in the future. The local paper here tells their photographers to "walk" from any such contracts because they understand. As a result, whenever a band presents these contracts at the venue I work for, their photographers are usually the only ones who don't have to sign and get to shoot while the rest of us walk. And yes... contact the publicity person for the promoter of the shows you are going to shoot. They usually know in advance about the content of the release/contracts.

It is up to us all to get paid what we deserve for our work, limit what we do for free and never sign our copyrights away. If we do this as a collective (anyone want to start a UNION?), we reap the benefits together. But... as long as there are people who keep give the work away, we ALL suffer in the end. I'm not talking about helping out the local band just getting started either, (all though they should pony-up too, no one sponsored us when we bought that $1,500 lens) I'm talking about the Foo Fighters, Beastie Boys, and Carole Kings of the music world.

I am as guilty as anyone else on these matters but have to chosen to put my foot down and I will continue to do so, even if it means I have to stop all together. I'd rather go back to shooting at bars in trade for a beer tab.

PS... Kalle, I've looked at your website and your work is awesome, it commands top $$$.

I expect that we'll have something like that from King so I will try to touch base with my boss at the casino before hand and see if he has an opinion about what he wants me to do. I don't have a lot of ego on it. I am curious as to how they acquire the images in order to use them?

My gut feeling is they don't most of the time. They just want to stop you from using them. I hope others will post their experience.

I promise not to jump down anyone's throat if you signed one and post a response here :=)

Dwight - You are welcome. I hope you take my advice and do the right thing. It's not about ego, or even money, it's about what is right and just. I wouldn't ever expect any of the bands to approach a photographer who has signed one of these contracts to get the images, but what if? All I hope for from these people is the simple "release" stating that the images can not be used for anything other than the original purpose without consent from the artist. Let us have the chance to, possibly, use the image again (maybe even make a buck or two) and don't come after our copyright (let us at least keep our dignity) since we can't use the image without permission anyway.

Walter - Just curious... are you referring to me when you say that you promise not to jump down anyones throat if they post their stories? Or am I just being sensitive? I am passionate about what I do and take these very topics seriously, so everyone (Kalle in particular) will have to excuse me if I seem harsh. I don't want to be compared to Carole Kings tour manager, HA! I am actually a "Happy" person and am thankful for this site and will shake your hand if we meet some day. Sharing stories on here is good, but we need to act so changes can be made. Like: Don't work for free for people who you know have money, eventually they will get tired of sub-par images from the Freetographers and start to pay again. Don't sign "Nasty" releases/contracts, walk!, eventually they will realize that nobody worth while is sticking around to shoot the shows and maybe change their ways. I don't know, just my thoughts here.

Curious about one more thing... What do you do when a contract is presented to you that has phrases stating that the band can use your images freely or that they own your copyright? If you scratch those parts out and the band doesn't agree, then what do you do?

Thanks.

Hey Snap (lol),

I wasn't speaking of you. I have a reputation for speaking my mind about insane contracts and being pushy about not accepting them.

Walter

Walter - Glad we're batting for the same team!

I'm gonna go play somewhere else on the site now.

if you scratched it out and they let you shoot, then you should be good, there are no take backs lol. Its their responsibility to check that before they let you in the pit to shoot. I would have just left with the film. lol.

STEVEN SEGAL WANTED THIS SIGNED TO LET METAKE PICTURES WHEN I CROSSED OUT MOST OF IT , CHANGED VARIOUS WORDING AND THEN SIGNED IT HIS GORILLA OF A TOUR MANAGER CAME OUT AND LOST IT WITH ME FOR DEFACING HIS PROPERTY I LEFT WITHOUT SHOOTING THE GIG

PHOTOGRAPHER'S RELEASE AGREEMENT

This Photographer's Release Agreement (the "Agreement") shall confirm the agreement dated as of the above date between Thunderbox, Inc., a California corporation ("Company") for the services of Steven Seagal ("Artist"), and the above-named photographer ("you"). In consideration of the mutual promises and covenants hereinafter contained, and for other good and valuable consideration, the receipt and adequacy of which is hereby acknowledged, Company and you agree as follows:

1. Company hereby grants to you the right, during the Term of this Agreement (as defined below), to shoot still photographs of Artist during Artist's live musical performances on stage. The term of this Agreement (the "Term") shall commence on the date hereof and shall end on March 31, 2007. You shall not be permitted or authorized to shoot any photographs whatsoever while Artist is not performing music live on stage, including, without limitation, while Artist is backstage, and you shall be permitted only to shoot still photographs as opposed to video or other forms of moving footage. Company shall be entitled to terminate this Agreement prior to the expiration of the Term upon written notice if, during the Term, you fail to comply with the terms hereof; provided that any such termination shall not affect the rights granted by you to Company herein.

2. In consideration of the sum of One United States Dollars (U.S. $1.00) and other good and valuable consideration, receipt of which is hereby acknowledged, you hereby sell, assign and transfer to Company all of your right, title and interest in and to all still photographs that you will take of Artist while Artist is performing music live on stage (all originals, copies and reproductions of all of said photographs and all negatives and copies of original slide negatives related thereto are herein collectively referred to as the "Photographs."), including, without limitation, all of your right, title and interest in and to the worldwide copyright relating thereto, together with all rights to secure copyright, renewals, reissues, extensions of the copyright, all accrued causes of action for past and present copyright infringements, and all rights to choses of action for past and present accrued damages. You hereby agree to deliver to Company all negatives, slide negatives and digital equivalents relating to such Photographs within five (5) business days following the shooting thereof.

3. The rights hereby purchased comprise all the rights in the Photographs of every kind, nature and description, including, without limitation,

a. the physical and/or digital prints themselves;
b. the right to secure copyright thereon anywhere throughout the world, in Company's or Artist's name or otherwise;
c. any and all publication and publicity rights therein, in whatever form; and
d. the right to use, license, exploit, sell or otherwise dispose thereof in any manner by any means and media and for any purpose as Company sees fit.

You further acknowledge that the Photographs will be and re¬main the exclusive property of Company forever. Company shall forever and throughout the world own the Photographs, and all copyrights and all other related intellectual property rights. Company shall have the full and complete worldwide right in perpetuity to broadcast, use, transmit, reproduce, edit, publish, sell, transfer, copyright, renew copyright, display and/or exhibit the Photographs through any and all media, means and markets now known or hereafter devised, including, without limitation, the internet. Company shall have the right to utilize and exploit the Photographs in any manner as Company in its sole judgment may choose, without any compensation to you, including, without limitation: (a) to crop or retitle the Photographs; (b) to publish them or not; and (c) to publish them in conjunction with other material. Nothing herein will constitute any obligation on Company to make any use of the rights set forth herein.

4. You hereby waive all rights of inspection or approval with regard to any use of the Photographs, and Company and Artist shall be without liability to you for any distortion or illusionary effect resulting from the broadcast and/or publication of the Photographs. You also hereby forever release, discharge and agree to hold harmless Company and Artist, and their respective officers, directors, shareholders, employees, agents, managers, business managers, attorneys, spouse, heirs, beneficiaries, executors, estate, representatives, successors and assigns and any person, persons, corporation or corporations distributing the Photographs, from and against any and all liabilities, damages and any claims which you may have, now or hereafter, known or unknown, relating to the use of the Photographs.

5. You hereby represent and warrant that you are the sole creator of the Photographs; that they are original and have not heretofore been published; that they do not infringe upon any statutory copyright, common law right, proprietary right, or any other right whatsoever; that they contain no matter contrary to law; that you are the sole owner of the Photographs and all rights herein conveyed to Company; that the Photographs and such rights are in all respects free and clear; and that you have not heretofore made and will not make any commitment for the sale, use or publication of the Photographs; and that you will indemnify, defend and hold harmless Company and Artist and their respective officers, directors, shareholders, employees, agents, managers, business managers, attorneys, spouse, heirs, beneficiaries, executors, estate, representatives, successors and assigns from any and all claims arising therefrom.

6. Subject to Company's prior written consent, you shall have the right to use the Photographs for one limited purpose only--in your portfolio for personal promotional purposes, whether in hard copy or on your web site. You shall submit to Company, for Company's prior written consent, those Photographs which you desire to use for your personal promotional purposes. In no event shall you be permitted or authorized, directly or indirectly, to use or to permit any third party to use any Photographs for any commercial or other purpose whatsoever.

7. Liquidated Damages. Notwithstanding anything else contained in this Agreement to the contrary, in the event you breach this Agreement and/or use or permit any third party to use, directly or indirectly, any Photographs for any purpose other than that authorized hereunder, the parties agree that Company shall be entitled to a sum of One Million United States Dollars (U.S. $1,000,000.00). The parties agree that One Million United States Dollars (U.S. $1,000,000.00) is a reasonable measure of Company's and Artist's damages considering all of the circumstances existing on the date of this Agreement, including the relationship of such sum to the range of harm to Company and Artist that could be reasonably anticipated and the likelihood that proof of actual damages would be costly or inconvenient. By executing this Agreement and initialing below, you specifically confirm the accuracy of the statements made above and the fact that you understand the consequences of this liquidated damages provision.

______________
INITIAL HERE

8. You agree to keep the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement confidential, and you agree not to disclose said terms and conditions to any third parties (other than your professional representatives) except as required by law or court order.

9. Any provision of this Agreement which is prohibited, unenforceable or not authorized in any jurisdiction shall, as to such jurisdiction, be ineffective to the extent of such prohibition, unenforceability or non-authorization without invalidating the remaining provisions hereof or affecting the validity, enforceability or legality of such provision in any other jurisdiction.

10. This Agreement constitutes the entire understanding between Company and you regarding the subject matter of this Agreement and supersedes any prior understandings or agreements between Company and you. There are no representations, agreements, arrangements or understandings, oral or written, between Company and you relating to the subject matter of this Agreement which are not fully expressed herein. This Agreement cannot be modified, altered or otherwise amended except by an agreement in writing signed by all of the parties hereto. This Agreement may be executed by facsimile, and signatures on a facsimile copy hereof shall be deemed authorized original signatures. By executing this Agreement, you acknowledge that you have read carefully and understand and accept all of its terms and conditions. This Agreement, and your rights and obligations contained herein, cannot be assigned, in whole or in part, by you without Company's prior written consent, but this Agreement may be assigned, in whole or in part, by Company. This Agreement shall be binding upon and inure to the benefit of the parties to this Agreement and their respective successors and permitted assigns.

11. This Agreement shall constitute a binding agreement between the parties and shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California, without reference to choice or conflicts of law principles. Any and all suits or actions for any breach of this Agreement, or otherwise arising out of this Agreement, shall be filed and prosecuted in any court of competent jurisdiction in the City of Los Angeles, State of California. Company shall be entitled to seek enforcement of the provisions of this Agreement by injunction or other legal or equitable means, and Company shall be entitled to consequential damages, if applicable. The parties hereto hereby consent and submit to the jurisdiction of the courts in the City of Los Angeles, State of California and hereby agree that service of process on any party may be effected by pre-paid overnight courier or certified mail, return receipt requested, postage prepaid. Each of the parties waives any objection which such party may have based on improper venue or forum non conveniens to the conduct of any such suit or action in any such court. If any action, suit or other proceeding is instituted to remedy, prevent or obtain relief from a default in the performance by any party of such party's obligations under this Agreement or for injunctive relief, the prevailing party shall recover all of such party's attorneys' fees and costs incurred in each and every such action, suit or other proceeding, including any and all appeals or petitions therefrom.

12. You also acknowledge that you had the right to seek independent legal counsel of your own choosing in connection with the execution of this Agreement, and you represent to Company that you have either done so or that you have voluntarily declined to do so, free from coercion, duress or fraud.

Hey Walter? when you going to post all those contracts we been collecting for the past year?

WE COULD HAVE A COMP FOR
WORST CONTRACT
FUNNIEST CONTRACT
WORST WORDED
KINDEST
ETC
HAVE AN "OSCARSTYLE" NIGHT IN SOME EXOTIC PLACE RED CARPET ET AL

If i was in a band, i would create a funny contract that said something like

"By signing this paper you agree to give all rights to photos to yourself. " lol.

Hey T0ast .. see my blog on rights grabbing contract language with attachments. I have more samples, but the ones I attached make the point.

I still want to collect more. Everyone should at least photograph any agreement they are asked to sign, preferably get a hard copy to take home. Send me a copy when you can - both good and bad language.

Typically contracts entered into by a minor are voidable, not void, and at the election of the minor.

In other words, if a minor had contracted signed the paper without ther parents involvement, the minor could void the contract at any time before turning eighteen; however, upon turning eighteen, the minor has the choice to void or ratify the contract.

If the minor ratifies the contract upon turning eighteen, then it becomes binding on them and they lose the ability to void it on the basis of having been a minor at the time the contract was signed.

If the minor continued operating under the agreement after turning eighteen, then they have implicitly ratified the contract and is estopped to deny that they are bound by the agreement; a “new” contract is not necessary.

Steven Segal is a musical artist????

Daniel Knighton
Pixel Perfect Images
(760)730-3224/(858)335-4540 cell
Carlsbad, CA
www.PixelPerfectImages.net
www.MySpace.com/PixelPerfectImages

No more or less than he is an actor, lol!

Ha!
I was quite surprised, myself. I wonder what Bruce Willis' blues band contract looks like ;)

He released an album of Blues material last year with some pretty heavy hitting guests.

Apparently he is a pretty good guitarist. All I've heard is what's on his MySpace.

Jamie "Shooter" Taylor
Photographer
TailWind Imaging
"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." -- Buddha
http://www.myspace.com/tailwindimaging
http://tradewindimaging.photoreflect.com

hey Will,
actually there was no contract at all when I shot Bruce..

I suggest you talk to the editor of the publication you are shooting for if you think you are going to encounter a nasty release that:
*signs away your rights
*breaches agreements you have with your client (the publication you are shooting for)
*asks you to give undertakings on behalf of a third party (the publication) that you don't have any authourisation to give

The picture editor of one of the daily newspapers I shoot for has told me not to sign the releases and has torn new ones in a few publicists about expecting photographers to sign them. One email exchange I saw from him to a publicist was "I wouldn't wipe my butt on that".

Needless to say I don't have to sign releases when shooting for them these days.

Cheers, Richard
www.blackshadow.com.au

Good point. Even if you were to sign that ridiculous contract-- would it be legally binding if you didnt even have the right to release those images to begin with?

For instance, I am the staff photographer at a venue. Due to that, legally the copyright belongs to the venue because they are paying me. If I sign a contract like this, can it be upheld since I didnt ever have the right to sign over the copyrights to begin with?

Hi Folks,

Can I ask anyone who gets a stupid contract thrust upon them to send me a copy please?

I would need a word, jpg or PDF file and the details of the artist and management if available as well as when and where the contract was issued.

The more of these I can gather together the more ammo it gives me, the NUJ, BPPA and the British Photographers Council. No promises but we are making ground (slowly)

Kind regards

Pete Jenkins

Here's another lovely nasty - this time from Jane's Addiction.

A pdf copy can be had at http://tr.im/sgPx

Thanks Richard. Shameful release.