You go to a show, all set up with your photo pass, knowing full well that cameras of any kind aren't allowed in. You may have worked darn hard to get that pass. There may be signs everywhere that say "No cameras!!!" everywhere. But you get inside, look for a place to stand (assume there's no photo pit) and there's nowhere left to stand. There are, however, 15 kids in the front row with PROFESSIONAL cameras and no photo passes!!!!
I hate that. It bothers me like no other photography foible. Especially if I get there and something got messed up, so I have to call tour managers, etc., and waste a ton of time, so by the time I get in there no good spots are left... and tons of kids with no photo passes are in the front! AHHHHHHHH.
Ok, I had to get that out (yes, this is a recent memory about which I'm still bitter).
It bothers me to...
I've had to walk from several shows because of rights grabbing contracts or sign releases limiting my use to the images I take (in 3 songs), knowing full well that all of the people in the front row brought their point and shoots and were going to be using them all night. With flash! Point and shoots these days are 10+ mega pixel with image stabelizers. The venue that I shoot for allows any camera with a non-removable lens.
I've often thought that I should just skip all of the BS and buy a ticket to the show. Particularly the shows that are standing room only, get right up front and fire away!
Hmmmmm.
Unless you have a guaranteed
Unless you have a guaranteed sale, I wouldn't bother doing the above :)
www.dbedford.com
At the show yesterday, I
At the show yesterday, I had to go through all this crap with them trying to get me to sign a rights-grabber and all this stuff. when I got there there was a girl in the front row who was there for Circa-Survive. I saw her ask the bouncer a question and leave, then return 20 minutes later with a point and shoot and a photo pass. I was like "are you serious?? Is that all it takes to get a pass these days? To be 16 and cute and have a P&S?" It drove me mad.
Yup...
As long as I provide the venue I shoot for with images, I always get paid. But... why not do it on spec? I'd say... If the band is big enough and you've got the connections and the patience to hold down a spot in the front waiting for the band to start, pay the ticket price and add the images to the archives. One half page spread and you've covered your costs, then... who knows what kind of value an image may hold later down the road.
I may be dreaming but... I'm counting on my archives to help put some beans on the table when I'm an old geezer, HA!
My experience
While I feel your pain, it's pretty typical these days.
"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"
Mom
"This is the business we've chosen"
Michael Corleone
"There's always a wedding next weekend that pays better if you get too tired of the concert scene"
Me...lol
Too cynical? I know.
I shot Mike Ness from Social Distortion a couple weeks ago and had to sign a release to get my pass. It was pretty tame as releases go these days, it didn't ask for any rights or usage, only limited my use to Editorial (which I have no problem with). There were at least 20 signs all over the venue stating "NO CAMERAS ALLOWED! CAMERAS WILL BE CONFISCATED!". So, of course everyone had their P&S out and started snapping away... only this time Security was on it, and grabbed every single camera right out of their hands with no claim checks handed out...lol. I just smiled and clicked away, being the only photog with a pass :-} The venue manager told me that the memory cards would be wiped and they would be returned if they could prove which one was theirs.... and if they asked.
Daniel Knighton
Pixel Perfect Images
(760)730-3224/(858)335-4540 cell
Carlsbad, CA
www.PixelPerfectImages.net
www.MySpace.com/PixelPerfectImages
Is That Legal?
"So, of course everyone had their P&S out and started snapping away... only this time Security was on it, and grabbed every single camera right out of their hands with no claim checks handed out...lol. ... The venue manager told me that the memory cards would be wiped and they would be returned if they could prove which one was theirs.... and if they asked."
Is a venue legally allowed (in the US, I guess..) to confiscate without written receipt and withhold that equipment until it is claimed by providing some element of "proof"? AND tamper with it whilst in their possession?
They are taking it away from the owner's sight and reach and apparently wiping the card - this assumes someone has enough nonce about cameras to do this on every model they confiscate, or they have a card reader set up for this purpose. And I bet most digicams belonging to Joe Public have pics from other stuff on them too - can the owner then sue the venue if those too get wiped nonchalantly, or if there is private content they don't want the venue to see?
Sticky issue.
IMO venues should prepare for such an (obvious) eventuality and provide options rather than confiscating them (I still doubt that a venue has a right to do this without even a fair process of returning it to the rightful owner unchallenged) or refusing entry. For example a cloakroom area designated for such equipment, with a numbered receipt system. Cameras could be put onto a high sided plastic tray, for example, so that they don't just get thrown somewhere & potentially damaged (more law suit potential).
Plus when you've a tight crowd of 1000 on the floor, I don't see them wading through to stop every flash they see popping off. You'd have to be unlucky if this happened to you (as a consumer digicam toting happy-go-lucky concert goer, not a serious fotog) - but still it doesn't send any particular message 'out to the community' and there will still be just as many compacts at the next gig.
very similar situation recently
I had a photo pass for Bryan Adams at Toad's Place last week. There wasn't a photo pit and I asked one the security guys that I know if he could ask the tour manager if there was a spot I could set up my camera. The tour manager came out and said that I wasn't allowed to take any pics with a professional camera unless I received a photo pass through them. I told him I had a pass through them andI had printed the email from the publicist and it was in my bag. He left while I was getting it and then showed up at my side 30 minutes later. He had forgotten that he put me down for a photo pass and told me I could shoot the first 2 from at least 15 feet away and to the side of Bryan. He also warned me that Bryan probably wouldn't look at me anyway.
I shot the first 2 smooshed against the crowd and every shot looked the same. Bryan didn't turn towards me once. There was probably 300 people there and about 50 of them were taking pics all night with flash right up in his face.
I emailed the publicist when I posted the review and she asked me why I didn't post a photo gallery(there were a few pics with the review). I had to tell her that there wasn't a pit and all of my pics looked the same. She never responded to my response.
its probably not legal, but
its probably not legal, but im sure they are given the choice to give up their camera or leave (which is legal) and they probably chose to stay. As for deleting images, who cares, that is what recovery software is for. lol.