Let's see if we can't get some more knowledge spread from our members. What are the greatest lessons you've learned from your experiences and from the conversations you have had with other photographers?
Some of mine are (a) always get everything in writing, (b) never give anything away for free, and (c) being nice to the security staff can save your hide.
Bouncers Rule!
Haha...I agree about the security! "Bouncers" rule...at least when they're on your side of things lol. :)
Let me reiterate about the writing thing. If it wasn't written, it wasn't done (or agreed upon!) I learned a very hard lesson about this a few months ago. I didn't lose a lot that time but it sure would have made things a lot easier.
Faye Weekly Photography
Advanced Amateur
Waldorf, Maryland
Re: Lessons Learned
I have also learned to not shoot on speculation unless it is a band that I just want to photograph for personal gratification. I photographed two bands at a show back in July. Both bands invited me to photograph them and expressed serious interest in licensing prior to and immediately after the show. Two weeks later both had a change of heart. I spent gas money, my valuable time and considerable effort photographing and processing pictures of both bands, and I received absolutely nothing in return.
Both bands later invited me to come to another show they are performing. My response was that I would be glad to do that with a signed contract to shoot. Of course the response was they could not guarantee a contract. I said I would not shoot the show. A third act on the bill for the same night may contract me to photograph their set. If that comes through, I look forward to the conversation with the first two bands when they ask to see the photos I took. I will tell them I didn't take any because they didn't pay me to do so.
Bands get paid to play. No contract? No performance. It is time they get a dose of their own (fair) medicine. If they want professional photographs, they can sign a contract and license agreement for me to take them. No cash? No photography. Plain and simple. No more speculation work.
Walter Rowe - Rowe Images
Professional Photographer
Columbia, Maryland - USA
Turn it to stock?
Are the bands up and coming and thus you can turn the images into stock sales down the road?
Jamie "Shooter" Taylor
TailWind Imaging
"Away you will go sailin/In a race among the ruins/If you plan to face tomorrow/Do it soon." -- Gordon Lightfoot
http://www.myspace.com/tailwindimaging
http://tradewindimaging.photoreflect.com
Re: Turn it to stock?
They are new bands who I doubt will break into the big leagues though they want to. If I get the contract for the third person, I may shoot the other two if they look compelling. If they want to license the photos later, they pay the same fee they would have paid to contract with me to begin with.
What do most of you here get to shoot a set or show for a band? What do you include in the license for those photographs? I'm talking local and regional unsigned bands, not bands with a record label contract.
Walter Rowe Photography
Columbia, Maryland - USA
Hobby Bands: Only for Fun
I've been busy so haven't taken the time to comment much. But it is the non-photo-sharing sections here that I like best.
To this topic, I have always shot hobby bands, which I did serially (one at a time) for "free" until very recently. The "free" for the last two included doing gigs for me. I'm unlikely to do another on that basis as while the frontman understood the value of images and a website, most of the members weren't a party to the discussions/agreement and felt as though it was just somebody taking part of their pie. Of course, with the website/images gone they now realize that it was a crucial part of their hobby ... they have no place to direct venues for audition tracks or PR images. And I have decided that they should pay me since one gig a year just isn't enough and then they whine about how little they get paid to start with ... I'm not sure how that translates into me working for them for free but that seems to be the logic. Not being a musician myself it rather eludes me. But for the first time in about seven years I am not supporting a local hobby band ... and I still don't have enough time to do what I want! :-)
That said, if I hadn't done work for free and then on deferred compensation for many years I would not have the contracts I have today that are reasonably lucrative so I'm not one of those that say, "Never work for free!" But, for big bands I don't give anything for free and I get asked a lot ... but almost none of the bands are willing to pay me, so they don't get images! The last outfit wasn't even a band, it was the Flying Karamazov Brothers ... I send them "demo" images with a price sheet and then never heard back from them. Fortunately for me for most of my work I am paid by contract and don't even have to market. But again, I only got here through judicious "free" work.
Nice to hear not everyone
Nice to hear not everyone starts at the top. :)
I've learned that local
I've learned that local unsigned bands are not a place to go looking for business from. They simply don't have the income to pay a photographer properly. That's a large part of why I've really slowed down shooting bands. I was getting to the point where it wasn't about gaining experience anymore and there aren't any bands that can pay me to work for them. Even the best local bands are struggling to make ends meet.
I'll still go out to shoot from time to time but I don't contact the band unless I feel like it. A few times local bands have contacted me but their expectations were unrealistic so I referred them to other photographers.
I am friends with a local producer and he often changes his rates depending on the artist and how much he likes them.... maybe not the most ethical but he's upfront about it. He will say "I know my rate is "xyz" but I am increasing it if you would like to continue working together". He will also work for basically free with others. I'm actually in the process of putting a portfolio together to leave at his studio. He often gets asked if he knows a photographer. That might be the best way to find local bands who will pay for your services. Find the recording studios and create a working relationship with them.
small town, not much money
I also agree on the unsigned local bands not having money.
I work with two seperate bands for promotion and experience; Through them I have had other paying bands comming to me for photos. Basicly we promote each other.
Bottem line 95% of bands are poor especialy in rual areas and I learned, sometimes take what you can get if it is equal to your work.